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TYLER - Just wanted to first express my appreciation for all the work you’ve put into the site and your consistency! Been coming here since 2004 and can’t believe how fast the time has gone. Also after reading countless Q&A’s over the years I’ve come to appreciate your answers even more as I see you don’t wonder off into left field and stick to trusted sources. So thank you for all your efforts and teaching style!
Now with that said on this question I’m okay if give your own speculation and insights as the answer may not be clear as far as I’m aware! But I wanted to write you and see what you have in the library of Joel’s collection
Regarding the great council and war in heaven in the pre existence I think maybe it’s taught that the war ended and sides were finalized and then as the chosen savior Jesus created the earth. But reading Moses 4:1-3 it seems Jesus was and had been already chosen for sometime and then later Satan came to the Father saying he had a new plan. And he and his angels were cast down to the earth. So my question is…was the creation of the earth finished and then he was cast out? Was the war in heaven going on at the same time during the six days of creation? I know it’s hard to pin point but was curious if you had any insight on the pre existence timeline. Thank you!
JOEL - You are right saying nothing is very clear regarding this. The scriptures don't always give clear timelines for when things happen. Sometimes the sequence of how things are said in the scriptures is not the actual sequence for when they are done. I will offer my interpretation of the scriptures.
Here is the Moses 4:1-3 scripture:
1. And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
Both Jesus and Lucifer were spiritually born of God the Father; Jesus being the first born was, as you said, the chosen of the Father from the beginning and it was He who was designated as the creator and savior of the earth. And in the great council of the Gods (Abr 4:26) they put forth the plan to create the earth and have Jesus be the creator and Savior of mankind.
Lucifer may have presented his his plan of salvation at this time which was contrary to that of the Father's and he and his angels rebelled.Even if Satan had also chosen the Father's Plan, the chosen one would have still been Jesus, having been the first born in the spirit.
Joseph Smith recorded in the D&C:
"That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust own from the presence of God and the Son,And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him -he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!" (D&C 76:22-27; see also D&C 29:36-38.)
And in Abraham 3:24-28:
"And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
"And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
"And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
"And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
"And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him."
Then in the next chapter it says:
"And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth." (Abr 4:1)
After the creation of the earth it was then "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)
In the first few Abraham verses, it explains what they were planning on doing in the great council; Satan's plan was rejected and he and his angels rebelled against God's plan and a war in heaven commenced (Rev 12:7-8).
Then the earth was created (Abr 4:1), and Satan, who "kept not his first estate" and his rebellious angels were cast down to earth without bodies(Rev. 12:9-10).
There is no indication that the world was being created at the same time as the war in heaven. I can't imagine Jesus having to deal with both things at the same time. But being a God I suppose He could have. We only know that it had to have been created before Satan and his angels could be cast down to it.
Brigham Young said:
"In regard to the battle in heaven, how much of a battle it was I have forgotten. I cannot relate the principal circumstances, it is so long since it happened, but I do not think it lasted very long; for when Lucifer, the Son of the Morning, claimed the privilege of having the control of this earth and redeeming it, a contention rose; but I do not think it took long to cast down one-third of the hosts of heaven, as it is written in the Bible. But let me tell you that it was one-third part of the spirits who were prepared to take tabernacles upon this earth, and who rebelled against the other two-thirds of the heavenly host; and they were cast down to this world." (Journal of Discourses, 5:54-55)
Kind of funny that he would say that he has "forgotten" that, as if it was something that he could remember.
Actually the war in heaven continues here on earth. President Wilford Woodruff said of this continuing conflict:
"[Lucifer] has great influence over the children of men; he labors continually to destroy the works of God in heaven, and he had to be cast out. He is here, mighty among the children of men. There is a vast number of fallen spirits, cast out with him, here on earth. They do not die and disappear; they have not bodies only as they enter the tabernacles of men. They have not organized bodies, and are not to be seen with the sight of the eye. But there are many evil spirits amongst us, and they labor to overthrow the church and kingdom of God....
...Do you suppose these devils are around us without trying to do something?...I say...we have got a mighty warfare to wage with these spirits. We cannot escape it. What will they do to you? They will try to make us do anything and everything that is not right." (Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, edited by G. Homer Durham (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1969), pp. 238-240.)
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